Baptism

[Aganator]

The method of baptism has been debated much. Honestly, you can believe what you want to believe, but straight from pages Scripture as well as the actual Greek language all we can find is a baptism of full submersion (every example in Scripture as well as the literal meaning of the Greek word that we get 'baptize' from).

However, that is not the point of this thread. My question to you is this:

Do you believe that baptism is NECESSARY for salvation or not? I already know what I believe, so I'm not asking in order to find out.

Make sure to think carefully; no insults and don't be stupid.

[Yahweh Will Calculate]

Originally Posted by Aganator

The method of baptism has been debated much. Honestly, you can believe what you want to believe, but straight from pages Scripture as well as the actual Greek language all we can find is a baptism of full submersion (every example in Scripture as well as the literal meaning of the Greek word that we get 'baptize' from).

However, that is not the point of this thread. My question to you is this:

Do you believe that baptism is NECESSARY for salvation or not? I already know what I believe, so I'm not asking in order to find out.

Make sure to think carefully; no insults and don't be stupid.

You are right that water baptism is to be full submersion. As far as salvation goes, there is nothing that anyone can add to the work of Christ that can secure our salvation and that includes water baptism. The mistake that most people make when they see the word baptized in the scripture, is to assume that it is referring to water.

Here is a good example, "He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved and he that believeth not shall be damned". The baptism that is being referred to here is not submersion into water; it is referring to our submersion into Christ by God's operation and not ours.

Hence, you are baptized by inclusion into Christ, crucified to sin, buried and resurrected a new creature. The water baptism that the believer partakes in after he or she is saved, is an outward symbol of their faith in what God alone did for us through our baptism of inclusion into Christ.
Have a good evening: Yahweh Will Calculate

[theophilus]

I can remember a time when I did believe baptism was necessary for salvation.

I grew up in a home where the Bible was considered the Word of God so I always believed it was true, but I didn't receive any teaching at home about what it taught. I began attending a church which didn't base all of its teaching on the Bible and I came to believe that salvation came as a result of a combination of faith and works and that baptism was the first work necessary. As a result I got baptized and joined the church and became active in it in my attempt to earn my salvation.

When I was in high school I had a Sunday school teacher who was saved. She listened to a radio program called Back to the Bible and because of her I began listening to it too. As a result I learned that salvation came through faith in Christ and I finallly trusted him rather than my works and really became a Christian.

Unfortunately when I was saved I went from the error of placing too much importance on water baptism to the error of neglecting it. The Bible indicates that a person who becomes a Christian should be baptised as a public declaration of his decision. I didn't recognize the importance of this step at first and it was almost three years before I finally was baptized in the way the Bible teaches.

[dan p]

Originally Posted by Aganator

The method of baptism has been debated much. Honestly, you can believe what you want to believe, but straight from pages Scripture as well as the actual Greek language all we can find is a baptism of full submersion (every example in Scripture as well as the literal meaning of the Greek word that we get 'baptize' from).

However, that is not the point of this thread. My question to you is this:

Do you believe that baptism is NECESSARY for salvation or not? I already know what I believe, so I'm not asking in order to find out.

Make sure to think carefully; no insults and don't be stupid.

Hi Aganator , am I am not GOING TO tell you are stupid , and AMUSED by your remarks that " all we can find is a baptism of full submersion " and where are the verse that say THAT ??????

Can you possibly ELABORATE on 1 Cor 10:2 , " And were all Baptized unto Moses in the Cloud and in the SEA ?????

#1 , They were baprized unto Moses !!!

#2 , They were baptized unto the Clouds !!!

#3 , They were baptized unto the Sea !!!!

#4 , Then in Acts 9:18 , is this water ?????

#5 , Then there is the " one baptism " of Eph 4:5 !!!!

#6 , The Greek word Baptimos , in Heb 9:10 , which is translated in verse 10 , by the word WASHING , is transliterated into English , to the word Baptism !!!!

#7 , IS submersion a Biblical word , I know it is NOT !!!!!!

[Eric Martin S.]

Yes, one must be baptised to go to heaven
(it is performed by God who takes my dead spirit and immerses it in His blood)
Post #4 by Dan is Right ON...I am not saying Dan will agree with My Post
1st a disclaimer comment -->
IF your faith is God wants you to be (water) baptized as an outward sign of an inward belief....then do so. For anything done without faith is a sin (paraphrased) - also James writes IF you know the good you ought to do, but do Not do it, then you sin.
----------------------------------------------------------------
I have read the baptisms in the New Testament...here is my conclusion.
Just as the Israelite believers insisted that Timothy be circumcised before Paul could bring Timothy along....SOooooo
A Tradition started...
Water baptism
(John the Baptist did a unique, once in a life time baptism - remember, to reveal the Messiah to the people, Plus to prepare the people for the coming Messiah...not just Levites needed cleansing, but God came to all of His people)

Anyways,
Water baptism replaced circumcision as an outward sign...
I agree with Peter, Paul & J.Baptist - THIS IS A MISTAKE
Eph. 4:5 one baptism
Holy Spirit (John 3:6) baptising my dead spirit (Rom. 7:9) into Christ Jesus blood (Heb 9:22).
Easy read for those who doubt this conclusion
Acts 2:38 - Peter thinks water baptism IS required for salvation (like circumcision)
Acts 10:43 - Peter is astonished that salvation comes to us Greeks...hurry, get them water baptised (hello Peter, they already have the Holy Spirit...little late ?)
Acts 11:16 - the Other Israelites Rejoice that we Gentiles are welcomed into His Family...aaaah, Peter Gets IT....(Peter matures)
Then I remembered what the Lord had said: 'John baptized with water, but you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit.'
Bonus
John the Baptist made the statement about His winnowing fork is in His hand and He clears His threshing floor with an unquenchable fire -
Conclusion
God baptizes everyone -
Our dead spirits into His blood for everlasting life - AMEN
Those dead spirits (& souls) into the Lake of Fire

[Thankful]

I believe baptism is needed. Scripture tells us that are so.

(Acts 2:38-39) “You must repent, Peter answered and every one of you must be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. The promise that was made is for you and your children, and for all those who are far away, for all those whom the Lord our God is calling to himself.”

As far what baptism entails? I really don’t believe God cars if one is sprinkled of dunked. I was sprinkled, and Jesus has never told me to do anything else. Jesus is my friend and he has called me by name. He has been teaching me for over thirty years. He has healed people that I have asked to be healed. He has performed miracles to keep me safe. He has provided for me for all these years. I have been given visions with him holding my hand and teaching me. I would say Jesus really doesn’t care if one is sprinkled or dunked.

Oh! By the way Jesus has let me walk in a number of the gifts of the Holy Spirit. Must be sprinkled is OK!

I wonder why the interpreters of the English versions bibles didn’t understand Greek?

[theophilus]

Originally Posted by dan p

Can you possibly ELABORATE on 1 Cor 10:2 , " And were all Baptized unto Moses in the Cloud and in the SEA ?????

There are two aspects to water baptism, the physical act and what it symbolized. When we are baptized we are identifying ourselves publicly as followers of Jesus. The passage of the Israelites through the Red Sea identified them as followers of Moses.

Romans 6:4 and Colossians 2:12 say that we are buried with Christ in baptism. Immersion is the only method of baptism that could be a picture of burial.

Originally Posted by Thankful

Oh! By the way Jesus has let me walk in a number of the gifts of the Holy Spirit. Must be sprinkled is OK!

The fact that God has used you doesn't mean that everything you believe is correct. If we had to be right in all our doctrines before we could do anything for God I suspect that none of us could accomplish anything for him.

[Thankful]

Originally Posted by theophilus

There are two aspects to water baptism, the physical act and what it symbolized. When we are baptized we are identifying ourselves publicly as followers of Jesus. The passage of the Israelites through the Red Sea identified them as followers of Moses.

Romans 6:4 and Colossians 2:12 say that we are buried with Christ in baptism. Immersion is the only method of baptism that could be a picture of burial.


The fact that God has used you doesn't mean that everything you believe is correct. If we had to be right in all our doctrines before we could do anything for God I suspect that none of us could accomplish anything for him.

What you don’t seem to understand is I have a personal relationship with Jesus. Jesus is my teacher. Jesus personally taught me and he has told me that the way I was baptized was OK.

Now your understanding of scripture tells you I am wrong. Does that make me wrong? No! It just makes you believe I am wrong.

Stop believing in your or man’s understanding of the Word of God. Don’t trust anything that man tells you about God. That includes your understanding. Always ask Jesus if something is right or wrong. Then at least you can know, for sure, what Jesus want you to know.

I am a person who through the grace of the Holy Spirit has not deliberately committed a sin for over thirty years. Only a Christian who knows God can say that.

You believe a person needs to be dunked to be a Christian. Well you are wrong. I am a Christian and I gave my life to him and he has given me the grace to live the whole Word of God.

The teaching that a person has to be immersed in water to be a Christian is wrong.

You don’t understand that you are saying most people who believe themselves to be Christians are not. Because they have not been dunked to become Christian. You saying they need to be immersed is just keeping you separated form most Christians.

[Eric Martin S.]

Originally Posted by Thankful

I am a person who through the grace of the Holy Spirit has not deliberately committed a sin for over thirty years. Only a Christian who knows God can say that.

1John 1:8 -
If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us.
---------------------------------------------------------
My spirit never sins
(salavation is guaranteed, IF your Truly His - Holy Spirit is also called Spirit of Truth)
my soul should mature (will be judged, least or greatest in heaven. 1Cor. 3:10-15)
my flesh still sins, that is,
shamefully my soul follows the desire of my flesh - much too often, ugh.

Whom will save me from this body of death ?
only He, Christ Jesus Finished Work on that cross
Eric
1John 4:10 - Only cuz He loves me

[Thankful]

Originally Posted by Eric Martin S.

1John 1:8 -
If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us.
---------------------------------------------------------
My spirit never sins
(salavation is guaranteed, IF your Truly His - Holy Spirit is also called Spirit of Truth)
my soul should mature (will be judged, least or greatest in heaven. 1Cor. 3:10-15)
my flesh still sins, that is,
shamefully my soul follows the desire of my flesh - much too often, ugh.

Whom will save me from this body of death ?
only He, Christ Jesus Finished Work on that cross
Eric
1John 4:10 - Only cuz He loves me

(1 John 1:8-10) “If we say we have no sin in us, we are deceiving ourselves and refusing to admit the truth; but if we acknowledge our sins, then God who is faithful and just will forgive our sins and purify us from everything that is wrong. To say that we have never sinned is to call God a liar and to show that his word is not in us.”


(1 John 3: 3 - 9) “Surely everyone who entertains this hope must purify himself, must try to be as pure as Christ. Any one who sins at all breaks the law, because to sin is to break the law. Now you know that He appeared in order to abolish sin, and that in Him there is no sin; anyone who lives in God does not sin, and anyone who sins has never seen Him or known Him. My children do not let anyone lead you astray; to live a holy life is to be holy just as He is holy; to lead a sinful life is to belong to the Devil, since the Devil was a sinner from the beginning. It was to undo all that the Devil has done that the Son of God appeared. No one who has been begotten by God sins: because God’s seed remains inside him, he cannot sin when he has been begotten by God.”

Well you quote a scripture to try and call some one a liar. Read the two verses I just quoted and you will see that John says”anyone who lives in God does not sin, and anyone who sins has never seen Him or known Him.”

And the teaching that one’s spirit doesn’t sin is a down right abomination. To think that our spirit and flesh are separate is such a lie. When a persons sins it is the whole person. You will never find that teaching before Luther, and Calvin. The early Christians would have never uttered such foolishness.

By the way this should not be part of this thread.

Start another thread to call me a liar.