Was Jesus Resurrected Debate Offer

[Randy]

Dear -truthseeker82

I don't know what your beliefs are re: Christ and salvation, but; I assume you know that physical resurrection is a 'non-negotiable' doctrine central to the Christian faith. Whichever your doctrine, these gnostic teachings (following with Plato) are grounded in a sort of 'body (physical) is bad/ evil vs. spirit is good / holy' belief ( to perhaps oversimplify)

like a 'purely platonic relationship' so to speak...

anyhow, the error (from a Christian perspective) actually isn't simply the physical resurrection__ but moreover an error in Christology and soteriology.

I'm pasting in an excerpt from an article relative to this subject from Randy Alcorn's book "Heaven" . I can't agree with Alcorn on 'all points' but then no one of has a perfect understanding of scripture... and (I think) that's no small part of the 'wrestle' we are engaged in (not with flesh and blood, but powers. principalities.. )

anyway I hope this may be received in the spirit from which it is offered

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by Randy Alcorn


APPENDIX A

Christoplatonism’s False Assumptions



It’s no coincidence that Paul wrote his detailed defense of physical resurrection to the Corinthians, who were immersed in the Greek philosophy of dualism. They’d been taught that the spiritual was incompatible with the physical. But Christ, in his incarnation and resurrection, laid claim not only to the spiritual realm but to the physical as well. His redemption wasn’t only of spirits but also of bodies and the earth.

Plato was “the first Western philosopher to claim that reality is fundamentally something ideal or abstract.”347 To think of the spiritual realm in physical terms or to envision God’s presence in the physical world was to do it a disservice. Plato considered the body a liability, not an asset. “For Plato . . . the body is a hindrance, as it opposes and even imprisons the soul (Phaedo 65–68; 91–94).”348

But according to Scripture, our bodies aren’t just shells for our spirits to inhabit; they’re a good and essential aspect of our being. Likewise, the earth is not a second-rate location from which we must be delivered. Rather, it was handmade by God for us. Earth, not some incorporeal state, is God’s choice as mankind’s original and ultimate dwelling place.

To distinguish the version of Platonism seen among Christians from secular forms of Platonism, I’ve coined the term Christoplatonism. This philosophy has blended elements of Platonism with Christianity, and in so doing has poisoned Christianity and blunted its distinct differences from Eastern religions. Because appeals to Christoplatonism appear to take the spiritual high ground, attempts to refute this false philosophy often appear to be materialistic, hedonistic, or worldly.

Because of Christoplatonism’s pervasive influence, we resist the biblical picture of bodily resurrection of the dead and life on the New Earth; of eating and drinking in Heaven; of walking and talking, living in dwelling places, traveling down streets, and going through gates from one place to another; and of ruling, working, playing, and engaging in earthly culture.

[Rick]

Originally Posted by truthseeker82

You saying "Your reasoning is unsound because a spirit does not have a celestial body. A spiritual, celestial has physical qualities as demonstrated by both the angels and the resurrected Lord Jesus" is refuted by 1 Corinthains 15:44 which says "It is planted a natural body; it comes again as a body of the spirit. If there is a natural body, there is equally a body of the spirit."

You saying "Regardless I have shown scripture that states that Christ is resurrected so there is nothing to debate about it" is wrong because Jesus was alive not after his resurrection but after his suffering according to Acts 1:3 "After his suffering, he presented himself to these men and showed many convincing proofs that he was alive."

According to the New Testament Lexicon, the word 'suffer' whcih is "Pascho" in Greek means to go through a painful experience.

( The suffering of Christ ended with His death. Your argument makes no sense from a Biblical standpoint.)

[joeycastaneda56]

The Order of the Resurrection Part 1 - (1 Cor.15:20-34). Christ "the first fruits" was the guarantee of the resurrection of all men (1 Cor.15:20-23). The "many" Old Testament Saints arose immediately after Christ did (Matt.27:53). The next in order will be those who are "in Christ" and "are Christ's" at the rapture (1 Cor.15:23, 51-58; 1 Thess.4:14-17). Next will be the 144,000 Jews as the man child of Rev.12:5. Then next will be the "great multitude" of tribulation saints and the two witnesses at the end of the tribulation who will be in time to be at the marriage supper and come back with Christ to establish His kingdom (Rev.6:9-11; 7:9-17; 11:2-13; 15:2-4; 20:4-6). All these companies because they are "Holy," "blessed," and "just" will be in the first resurrection and will help complete it (Rev.20:4-6). The wicked dead will not be raised until 1,000 years later (Rev.20:4015). I will add the other parts later............Joey.

[joeycastaneda56]

This is the first resurrection of all the just, the blessed, and holy from Adam to the Millennium. It covers the period of time from Christ's resurrection to the resurrection of the tribulation saints and the two witnesses and includes the various companies. All who have part in this resurrection will have some part in ruling with Christ, who will not have just a select few, as taught by many (Rev.20:4-6). This resurrection may be called the "out resurrection" ; that is, a resurrection out of, or from among the dead (Phil.3:11-14; 1 Thess.4:14-17; 1 Cor.15:51-58; Luke.14:14; 20:35-36; Heb.11-35; Rev.20:4-6). Just as Christ came out from among the dead as "the first fruits" of the dead, so at the rapture, the "dead in Christ" will come forth from the wicked dead according to the above passages. Even the tribulation saints will come out from the wicked dead (Rev.20:4-6). The wicked dead live not again until the thousand years are finish (Rev.20:4-6).

The Greek expression "ek nekron," out of the dead, is used 49 times and teaches a select resurrection from the dead - the righteous selected from among the wicked - but it does not teach a select resurrection of some righteous from among the righteous (Matt.17:9; Mark 9:10; Luke.24:46; Acts.3:15: 4:10: 10:41: 13:30: 17:31: Rom.1:4; 4:24; 6:4-9; 8:11; 1 Cor.15:12, 20-23; etc.) The theory that a few of the righteous will be selected from among the righteous is a mere human invention based upon a few historical stories of the Old Testament which were never intended as types at all. It is not worthy of consideration in view of the lack of even one plain Scripture on the subject. All the dead and the living "in Christ" will be in the first resurrection - not just a few of those in Christ. All those who are out of Christ will be raised together after the Millennium to be judged and cast into the lake of fire (Rev.20:4-6, 11-15). The "first resurrection" may also be called "the resurrection of the just," "resurrection of life," "a better resurrection," and the "resurrection of [from among] the dead" (Luke.14:14; John.5:28-29; 11:25; Heb.11:35; Phil.3:10-15; Rev.20:4-6)...............Joey

[joeycastaneda56]

.........<<>> This is the resurrection of all the wicked from Adam to the end of the Millennium. It will take place after the Millennium and it will also include those wicked who die during the Millennium (Rev.20:4-6, 11-15). They will be raised with immortal bodies to be tormented in Hell forever (Matt.10:28; John.5:29-29; 12:24; Dan.12:3; Acts.24:15; 1 Cor.15:21, 34-50; Rev.14:9-12; 19:20; 20:4-6, 11-15). The theory that only the righteous will be raised to immortality is false and is not founded on one Scripture. The method of the resurrection of the just and unjust is plainly taught and illustrated by a grain of wheat or any other grain as explained above. So what makes the difference between the two resurrection ? Does not a bad or poisonous seed reproduce in the same way that a good seed does? Do not both have to go through the same process ? The resurrection of men follows this same process. The only difference will be in glory of one man over another. However, saved and unsaved will be immortal as is plainly taught in all Scripture. Not one statement was ever made to the contrary..........Joey