If God knew...

[NinjaWizards777]

...that even ONE soul was destined for eternal seperation...why did he create them to begin with? God being all knowing must have known that the majority of humanity would either not hear of Him clearly enough to understand or reject him...so what was the purpose in their creation if not a relationship with him? Was it is simply a vain chance? or is there another solution?

this could diverge into alot of diffrent topics like universalisim and predestination all which I think ive seen somewhere on here just by browsing but Id like to know your thoughts pertaining to this realm of questions(though i will certainly give my thoughts on such other topics though I really dont have any set ideas on them in my current state).

[Rick]

Originally Posted by NinjaWizards777

...that even ONE soul was destined for eternal seperation...why did he create them to begin with? God being all knowing must have known that the majority of humanity would either not hear of Him clearly enough to understand or reject him...so what was the purpose in their creation if not a relationship with him? Was it is simply a vain chance? or is there another solution?

this could diverge into alot of diffrent topics like universalisim and predestination all which I think ive seen somewhere on here just by browsing but Id like to know your thoughts pertaining to this realm of questions(though i will certainly give my thoughts on such other topics though I really dont have any set ideas on them in my current state).

That`s a complex Biblical issue that takes serious study to resolve. The short answer is that God gave us a will of our own. It`s inevitable that some aren`t going to make it.

The parable of the wheat and the tares gives the answer to that question. The farmer in the parable couldn`t uproot the tares without damaging his wheat so he lets them both grow together.

God allows the souls of the lost to come into existence for the good of the souls that are redeemed.

[Dave Sargeant]

Rick, is there a middle way between pre and free. An evangelist I knew in the 60s believed that this question will never be solved but that it was like parallel lines meeting in heaven. I have my views from scripture and have studied but wonder if throwing texts around is the best way? dAVE

[Dave Sargeant]

NinjaWizards777. I am intrigued, not only by your question but by what you mean when mentioning your current state. The question is as Rick says complex and there are many opinions on the matter, it is a bit late though so will not get into any deep debate tonight. Dave.

[Rick]

Originally Posted by Dave Sargeant

Rick, is there a middle way between pre and free. An evangelist I knew in the 60s believed that this question will never be solved but that it was like parallel lines meeting in heaven. I have my views from scripture and have studied but wonder if throwing texts around is the best way? dAVE

I`m not sure what you mean Dave. You`ll have to explain it to me.

[NinjaWizards777]

Originally Posted by Rick

That`s a complex Biblical issue that takes serious study to resolve. The short answer is that God gave us a will of our own. It`s inevitable that some aren`t going to make it.

i understand God gave us "free will" but he also knew that most humans would use said "will" and not "choose" him. At the same time(and heres where im going to sound heretical) I argue whether God gives us the choice clear enough to begin with. Its not like when people are born they are automaticly given some sort of ultimatum, that is as clear as "do you want an apple or an orange?". Pre "the" bible as we know it today, the only interaction humanity had with God was "miracles" and tugs on our hearts. And today, is still our only knowledge and "evidence' of his exsistence...save for a few scientific supports and what not.

Originally Posted by Rick

The parable of the wheat and the tares gives the answer to that question. The farmer in the parable couldn`t uproot the tares without damaging his wheat so he lets them both grow together.

God allows the souls of the lost to come into existence for the good of the souls that are redeemed.

I can see this...this is really the only thing that remotley makes sense on the matter. but it still gives me a disturbing sense of "God plays favorites" and like the majority of humanity was only "seasoning" for those whod be saved. and I hate that feeling.

Originally Posted by Dave Sargeant

NinjaWizards777. I am intrigued, not only by your question but by what you mean when mentioning your current state. The question is as Rick says complex and there are many opinions on the matter, it is a bit late though so will not get into any deep debate tonight. Dave.

My current state is listed in my intro in the intro fourm. A few months back I asked God to help me follow and serve him as passionatley as I did in past years, and almost immediatley I was baraged with questions that I could no longer answer easily and caused me to instead backslide further than I already was to a point that im very confused on what I believe right now. So...thats what I mean by my current state.

[Rick]

Hello Eric,

I`m not going to reply to your remarks today. I want to spend some time praying about you first.

For me you are a breath of fresh air. Most of our site members are either people who have believed in God for a long time and are pretty seasoned believers or else they are opponants of the fundamental Christian doctrines that we promote and wish to contend with me over the gospel.

In your case. You are the sort of person that I have worked this place up for and probably the first one who has come along. My hope is that you will able to find the answers that you need here. If not then perhaps we can search for them together.

The issue you present for us at the moment is in my estimation the most diffulcult one to come to terms with. It was for me, surely it was. Even now I am revisiting the issue by considering the Univeral salvation viewpoint. I will tell you that I have some serious reservations about that view and they have some problems with their doctrine that I am far from convinced that they are able to address. Hopefully the new member who wishes to defend their view will do better then his two predecessers.

In the meantime have a look at this website in the link below. I hope you find it interesting.

http://users.netconnect.com.au/~leedas/index.html

[NinjaWizards777]

some very intresting findings there

[Rick]

Originally Posted by NinjaWizards777

some very intresting findings there

Yeah. I love Wyatts work. The Holy Spirit is the real evidence of God`s existence. But there are many other things that prove Him as well. Creation science has come a long way. The Bible has been proven to historically accurate. And the accuracy with which the modern age is described in scripture is pretty powerful evidence.

I`m going to leave the ball in your court Eric. I`m tempted to say some things to you but I think it`s important that you lay your own issues on the table for us.

So I invite you to fellowship with us and share things. The bible tells us to bear one anothers burdons and to encourage one another. So share yours with your family in God.

[fykusfire]

I know Ninjawizards from other forums, and he mentioned here, so I came. Let me preface what I am about to say by stating that I believe I am one of the 144,000 Hebrews spoken of in Revelation. This used to follow me with strife, and a sort of negative stigma. However, I feel comfortable with stating this now. I am not looking for enemies.

Let me also state that I love everyone with everything I have. I am not here to pass judgment, or call names over doctrine, dogma, or human interpretation of anything. It just simply isn't my place, and it certainly isn't my job. But I felt compelled to post something here for everyone to ponder.

We all should know by now that science has the LHC set for operation next year. I know many have thought about the destructive rammifications of such a machine. I present to you the more abstract rammifications instead. Ponder this if you will all.

When the machine is activated, we are supposed to have created a miniature "universe" for better or worse for mere moments in our relative time. What if then, that this "universe" creates intelligent beings that ponder whether we humans that created them exist? Beyond that, what if their "science" tells them that they have been on their planet for billions of years?

Would that seem like "billions of years" to us here in the present earth? What are a "billion years" really then? It is easy to think that our world is the only, and the "end all be all." But it is much more thrilling to imagine that a being could be an origin point to all. And that said being owns, and begat all that is known within creation, at least in my opinion.

Not that this is proof of anything, it is simply a point to ponder on your own time. I believe that much is to be rectified within science and faith. But that is my own to believe. I will leave only with this for now instead. Science may devise an explanation, even an accurate one no less, for how we humans and all around became. But science can not, and will not, explain what existed before it.

Thanks to all that listened.