Why So Many Churches?

[joeycastaneda56]

Originally Posted by Rick

You`re confusing me Joey. Last I knew the ten commandments are part of Moses law. And where does the Bible talk about seven dispensations? That sounds like man doctrine to me. Oh and keep in mind that I am a dispensationalist when you answer.


P.S. And before making any more mistaken assumptions about my views try reading some of my articles or some of my blogs. I don`t like to invest my time into lengthy posts about stuff I`ve already posted. This thread is supposed to be about hearing your views not mine. So it`s better if you stick to what you believe and avoid telling me what I don`t know. Trick questions can get tricky and I`m not hiding my candle under a bed here.

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If you would check, The Seven Dispensations are very important for a Christian to study. It will take you from Exodus to Revelation and this is what it teaches a person about God's plan for every generation. These Dispensations are also taught in Christian Collages.

These are the nine points for person to learn in connection with each Dispensation, if a general knowledge of that period is to be gained. They are as follow:

(1) - The definition of the name of the Dispensation.

(2) - The length of the Dispensation.

(3) - The favorable beginning for man in each age.

(4) - Test for man in each period.

(5) - The purpose of God in each test for man.

(6) - The means of God in accomplishing His purpose.

(7) - The failure of man to meet the test.

(8) - The Judgment of God upon man because of his failure.

(9) - God's provision of redemption for man at the end of each age.

When these nine points of each of the seven dispensations for man are leaned then God's plan for men and women as a whole will become very simple to understand.

Also Rick, a (Beloved Watchman) is not in the Bible either. And also this is a debate isn't it. I thought we are to hear both sides. I didn't know you just wanted to hear my side only...........Joey.

[Rick]

Originally Posted by joeycastaneda56

.

If you would check, The Seven Dispensations are very important for a Christian to study. It will take you from Exodus to Revelation and this is what it teaches a person about God's plan for every generation. These Dispensations are also taught in Christian Collages.

These are the nine points for person to learn in connection with each Dispensation, if a general knowledge of that period is to be gained. They are as follow:

(1) - The definition of the name of the Dispensation.

(2) - The length of the Dispensation.

(3) - The favorable beginning for man in each age.

(4) - Test for man in each period.

(5) - The purpose of God in each test for man.

(6) - The means of God in accomplishing His purpose.

(7) - The failure of man to meet the test.

(8) - The Judgment of God upon man because of his failure.

(9) - God's provision of redemption for man at the end of each age.

When these nine points of each of the seven dispensations for man are leaned then God's plan for men and women as a whole will become very simple to understand.

Also Rick, a (Beloved Watchman) is not in the Bible either. And also this is a debate isn't it. I thought we are to hear both sides. I didn't know you just wanted to hear my side only...........Joey.

Watchman is in the Bible Joey. So is loving your brethren. But you have no scriptures for your man made dispensation view. The word only appears in scripture four times. Three times in reference to the present dispensation and once in reference to the next. By implication we can know that there was a dispensation prior to this one but apart from that, anything else is man made speculation and outright false doctrine.

And how is it important to study something that isn`t in the Bible?

[joeycastaneda56]

Originally Posted by Rick

Watchman is in the Bible Joey. So is loving your brethren. But you have no scriptures for your man made dispensation view. The word only appears in scripture four times. Three times in reference to the present dispensation and once in reference to the next. By implication we can know that there was a dispensation prior to this one but apart from that, anything else is man made speculation and outright false doctrine.

And how is it important to study something that isn`t in the Bible?

.........<<>> Rick your are confusing me. You said the Dispensation Periods are man made Doctrine. But then you said for me to keep in mind that before I answer you that you are a (Dispensationalist). That is a little confusing to me.

Rick, let me show you why the Dispensations are so important. We will deal with two of The Dispensations; the (Law) and the Dispensation of (Grace). We need to thank Jesus for coming and bringing His Grace that has lasted 2,008 years and will continue until the start of the Millennium. The (Grace) was bought by the (Blood) and the (Cross) removed the harsh (Law) that men and women had to live by. Here is a list of the (Law) that Grace now covers.

(1) - It had a sinful mediator (Gal.3:10).

(2) - It could not give eternal inheritance (Rom.4:13-25; Gal.3:18).

(3) - It was dedicated by the blood of animals (Ex.24:6-8; Heb.9:16-22).

(4) - It brought condemnation, not life (Rom.3:19-20; 4:15; 7:1-25; 8:3-4; Gal.3:21).

(5) - It could not justify a man (Acts.13:39; Gal.2:16-21).

(6) - It could only profit when kept, but it was impossible to be kept by a man in himself (Rom.2:25; 7:7-25; 8:7; Gal.3:10-28).

(7) - It brought all men under the curse and executed them (Gal.3:10-14).

(8) - It was not faith or (Grace) (Gal.3:11; John.1:17).

(9) - It was a law of works and bondage (Rom.3:26-31; Gal.3:10-12; 4:21-31).

(10) - It gave a knowledge of sin and made men sinners but it could save them from there sins (Rom.3:19-20; 4:15; 7:7-25; 8:3-4).

(11) - It brought wrath instead of blessing (Rom.4:15).

(12) - It was not the same as the gospel to Abraham (Rom.4:3-16; Gal.3:6-18).

(13) - It was only a temporary law (Gal.3:19-25; 2 Cor.3:16-18; Eph.2:15 Col.2:14-17; Heb.7:16).

(14) - It could never make perfect (Heb.7:11-12, 18:19 9:9-10; 10:1-18).

(15) - It was disannulled because of its weakness and unprofitableness (Heb.7:18).

(16) - It could not redeem and make dead to sin (Rom.8:1-4; Gal.2:16-21; 3:13-21), but it could death and condemnation (Rom.7:7-25; 2 Cor.3:6-18).

(17) - It was not made by an oath, neither were it priests made by any oath, therefore both the law and the priesthood could be changed (Heb.7:12, 20:22).

(18) - It was not as good as the new covenant (Heb.7:22).

(19) - It had a changing priesthood while the new covenant does not have (Heb.7.11-28).

(20) - It had sinful priests while the new covenant does not have (Heb.5:1-4; 7:26-28; 9:7).

(21) - It had a temporary and shadowy sanctuary (Heb.8:1-5, 13; 9:9-25; 10:1-18).

(22) - It had a faulty ministry and a weaker foundation that did the new covenant (Heb.8:6; 7:11-28).

(23) - It demanded righteousness but could not produce it (Rom.4; 8:1-4; Gal.3).

(24) - It was faulty (Heb.8:7,13) while the new covenant is not (James.1:25).

(25) - It kept men from God (Heb.9:7-8; 10:19-22).

(26) - It was made necessary by sin and was added and imposed until Christ should come (Gal.3:19-25; Heb.9:9-10, 23-28; 10:5-18).

(27) - It had animal sacrifices which had to be offered daily while the new covenant had Christ as a sacrifice once and forever (Heb.9:11-28; 10:3-4).

(28) - It was a mere shadow of things to come (Heb.8:5; 9:11; 10:1-18).

(29) - It could not satisfy the demands of God and impart the Holy Spirit or produce miracles (Gal.2:21; 3:1-5; Rom.8:1-4).

(30) - It was made to be changed when Christ should come (Gal.2:19-21; 3:19-25; Heb.7:11-22; 8:5-6; 9:9-10; 10:1-18).

And Rick, We do have to abide by the Ten Commandments. Here is something to study on. Exodus.20:1 - These 10 WORDS (The Ten Commandments) are absolute (Law), principles that are all-encompassing and allow for no exception. Jesus confirms their timeless application in (Matt.5:21-37). But we are blessed that they are now covered by the (Grace of Jesus Christ) brought to us through the (Dispensation of Grace).

These are things that I have learned studying the Dispensation periods. Now do you see any False Doctrine in my statements above.

(We) including myself need to be very careful about bringing any type of (Law) upon the Children of God. By telling the Children of God that they have to be filled with the Holy Spirit to make Heaven their home is false doctrine it is by (Grace) that we are (Saved) and not by (Works). And people that think this way I hope and pray that God will remove the blinders from their eyes so they will see the true Gospel of Jesus Christ and how His (Grace) covers us. Remember there is only one sin that God will not forgive. And that is (Blasphemy) against the Holy Spirit..............Joey.

[Rick]

My comments in ( )

.........<<>> Rick your are confusing me. You said the Dispensation Periods are man made Doctrine. But then you said for me to keep in mind that before I answer you that you are a (Dispensationalist). That is a little confusing to me.

( I said your 7 dispensation claim is man`s doctrine. I only deal with Biblical dispensationalism. As I stated previously the bible affirms two dispensations and by implication a preveous one. There is one verse where Paul refers to previous ages so yes there is more then one previous age. However the bible does not name them for us or explain what the previous ages were. This seven dispensation thing is man`s doctrine, nothing more. It would be ok if you presented it as a theory. But trying to present it as gospel is erroneous.)

Rick, let me show you why the Dispensations are so important. We will deal with two of The Dispensations; the (Law) and the Dispensation of (Grace).

( What you are showing me is a false doctrine. There is no dispensation of Law. The Law was part of a covenant God made with the Israelites. It is not a dispensation. Prior to the dispensation of Grace the Gentiles were still living according to the covenant God made with Noah.)

We need to thank Jesus for coming and bringing His Grace that has lasted 2,008 years and will continue until the start of the Millennium. The (Grace) was bought by the (Blood) and the (Cross) removed the harsh (Law) that men and women had to live by.

( Harsh Law? That`s a sinful thing to say. The bible teaches us that the Law is holy,righteous and good.)

Here is a list of the (Law) that Grace now covers.

(1) - It had a sinful mediator (Gal.3:10).

( And what mediator is that and how does Galatians 3:10 pertain to him? Your verse says nothing about a mediator.)

(2) - It could not give eternal inheritance (Rom.4:13-25; Gal.3:18).

( All that proves is that salvation has always been by grace. Grace is an Old testament doctrine.)

(7) - It brought all men under the curse and executed them (Gal.3:10-14).

( So no one in the Old Testament was saved huh? I don`t think that`s the intended meaning of the passage.)

(18) - It was not as good as the new covenant (Heb.7:22).

( Hebrews 7:22 is talking about a New Testament ( hint:the gospel) not a New Covenant. There is no New Covenant until Jesus returns. What we have now is a gospel and a promise of a New Covenant.)

And Rick, We do have to abide by the Ten Commandments.

( Ten Commandments aren`t good enough for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.)

Here is something to study on. Exodus.20:1 - These 10 WORDS (The Ten Commandments) are absolute (Law), principles that are all-encompassing and allow for no exception. Jesus confirms their timeless application in (Matt.5:21-37).

( Jesus is addressing Torah observant Jews in Matthew chapter 5.)

But we are blessed that they are now covered by the (Grace of Jesus Christ) brought to us through the (Dispensation of Grace).

( Oh now you tell me it`s ok to break them again. I`m covered so no need to worry about God`s Law.Your doctrine is contradictory.)

These are things that I have learned studying the Dispensation periods. Now do you see any False Doctrine in my statements above.

( Yes )

(We) including myself need to be very careful about bringing any type of (Law) upon the Children of God.

( Then stop doing it.)

( And by the way this is what Paul says about God`s Law.)

(Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.)

By telling the Children of God that they have to be filled with the Holy Spirit to make Heaven their home is false doctrine it is by (Grace) that we are (Saved) and not by (Works).

( It is another gospel to claim that you can be saved without the Holy Spirit. It is not the gospel of Christ to say such a thing. You cannot be born again without the Holy Spirit and receiving the Holy Spirit is not a work. It is an act of God.)

5Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
6That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
7Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
8The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.

( This is the doctrine of Christ. He plainly states that to enter heaven you have to be born of the Spirit and that my misguided friend is the baptism of the Holy Spirit.The Spirit must enter into you in order for you to be reborn.)

And people that think this way I hope and pray that God will remove the blinders from their eyes so they will see the true Gospel of Jesus Christ and how His (Grace) covers us.

( You need to say this prayer for yourself Joey.)

[joeycastaneda56]

Originally Posted by Rick

LOL!!!

I`m a Baptist-Berean-Quaker-Pilgrim Holines-Church of God-Mountain Assembly-Assembly Of God-Charismatic-Holy Roller-Apostolic Oneness And Triune God Pentecostal-Spirit Filled Believer.

I attend an independant church at the present time


I was recently trying to figure out which ones were the good ones and thought maybe you knew

Rick I was thinking did you say that you were also a (Quaker) in this statement above. And how long have you been a (Quaker) ? The reason I am asking I dealt with a (Quaker) on another Christian Web Site and she said they allow (Gays) in their Churches. And this is not a attack it is just a question thanks Joey...........

[Rick]

Originally Posted by joeycastaneda56

Rick I was thinking did you say that you were also a (Quaker) in this statement above. And how long have you been a (Quaker) ? The reason I am asking I dealt with a (Quaker) on another Christian Web Site and she said they allow (Gays) in their Churches. And this is not a attack it is just a question thanks Joey...........

I became a Quaker in the late 1980`s and I worshipped with them for several months at that time. Quakers are interesting. They worship God silently and the Holy Spirit would fill their church when they worshipped.

There was an older brother named Clyde who opened his house for silent prayer and worship several days a week.I went there quite a bit and it was an amazing experience.There was a powerful annointing of God`s Spirit in his house. Even in Clyde`s bathroom which is unique in my experience. I`ve never been to a church or a house that had an annointed bathroom except for his house.

Many Quakers are aspostate as is the case with about all denominations.
They try to be in the mainstream so what you are saying doesn`t surprise me.

I`m confident that there are at least some Quaker churches who wouldn`t agree with that.

The Quakers I knew were filled with the Holy Ghost and were full of God`s love. And they never spoke in tongues.

[joeycastaneda56]

Originally Posted by Rick

I became a Quaker in the late 1980`s and I worshipped with them for several months at that time. Quakers are interesting. They worship God silently and the Holy Spirit would fill their church when they worshipped.

There was an older brother named Clyde who opened his house for silent prayer and worship several days a week.I went there quite a bit and it was an amazing experience.There was a powerful annointing of God`s Spirit in his house. Even in Clyde`s bathroom which is unique in my experience. I`ve never been to a church or a house that had an annointed bathroom except for his house.

Many Quakers are aspostate as is the case with about all denominations.
They try to be in the mainstream so what you are saying doesn`t surprise me.

I`m confident that there are at least some Quaker churches who wouldn`t agree with that.

The Quakers I knew were filled with the Holy Ghost and were full of God`s love. And they never spoke in tongues.

Now Rick, you have me very curious. What type of annionting did Brother Clyde have in His bathroom?

Also we as Christians must be very careful on the words we speak. Words are very powerful. God said (I Am who I Am) / God.

In the same statement of what Churches you belong to, you also said (I am a Baptist). Rick, how can you be a Baptist? For Baptist do not believe in being filled with the Holy Spirit and Speaking in Tongues. I am also studying on the other Churches to understand their Doctrines.

Rick, please do not get upset with my questions. I prayed about this and the Holy Spirit spoke to me and told me to ask you these questions. He also said that when a person has so many doctrines tied into one it can bring confusion to the Children of God. He also showed me in your last statement to me that you can be a very (Humble Person)............Joey.

[Rick]

Originally Posted by joeycastaneda56

Now Rick, you have me very curious. What type of annionting did Brother Clyde have in His bathroom?

Also we as Christians must be very careful on the words we speak. Words are very powerful. God said (I Am who I Am) / God.

In the same statement of what Churches you belong to, you also said (I am a Baptist). Rick, how can you be a Baptist? For Baptist do not believe in being filled with the Holy Spirit and Speaking in Tongues. I am also studying on the other Churches to understand their Doctrines.

Rick, please do not get upset with my questions. I prayed about this and the Holy Spirit spoke to me and told me to ask you these questions. He also said that when a person has so many doctrines tied into one it can bring confusion to the Children of God. He also showed me in your last statement to me that you can be a very (Humble Person)............Joey.

Hi Joey,

I was never upset with you. But I don`t think someone can get very far with you by being a soft touch. And that`s the way it is with a lot of other people as well. But I`m glad that you still want to have discussion with me.

The annointing in Clyde`s bathroom was the same as in the rest of his house. Just a heavy presence of God`s Spirit like one might experience at a real good worship service.

I am first and foremost a Baptist. My beloved aunt and uncle were Baptists. I came to believe as a result of their love and the life that they lived in front of me. I am part of their fruit in Christ and my earliest church experiences was at their Baptist church. My favorite biblical character is that ol` Baptist named John. He`s one of my heros. One of the great things about being a Baptist is that you can believe just about anything you want to. There are a wide range of beliefs among Baptists. Many of the early Charismatics were former Baptists. In my case I would fit best as what is called a Baptecostal and sometimes I will amuse myself by calling myself a Baptecost.

I am non-denominational. I believe in one denomination and that is the body of Christ. The body of Christ cuts across denominational lines and only God knows who they all are.

The list is church denominations that I have participated in at one time or another and learned something from.

I think one must exercise great care when quoting the Holy Spirit. It is sin to say the Holy Ghost spoke to you if he didn`t.

The Bible tells us that God is not the author of confusion. Confusion is man made.

First John tells us to test the spirits and see if they are of God. The spirit in the context of this passage can be the spirit of one who brings a message into your church or it can be a church body itself. It is a good thing to experience more then one church.

If your truth is coming from God`s spirit and God`s word then you will be led out of confusion not into it.

The confusion is getting your truth from doctrines of men and church creeds. In our day and age it is complicated to sort out the difference.

Another site member left a pretty good commentary on the gift of tongues on the tongues thread. I recommend that you read it. I know I`m going to.