Why So Many Churches?

[Rick]

Why are there so many churches and which is right?

[JohnOneOne]

Originally Posted by Rick

Why are there so many churches and which is right?

As I see it, the apostle Paul clearly explained that when people are following their 'flesh' instead of allowing the influence of God's spirit to operate within their hearts and minds, this would naturally result in 'divisions/disscensions.' (Galatians 5:20)

On the other hand, when this is contrasted with how the effects of Holy spirit would influence true Christians, Paul likewise made clear that this kind of 'fruit' would result in those within the 'brotherhood' of being capable and willing to agree with one another, especially on the most important matters, that is, with regard to spiritual things. (1 Corinthians 1:10)

Therefore, in my view, the answer is quite simple. And, as for seeking out and attempting to determine which 'Church' is right, the answer is already stated - if they agree with one another as well as have love among themselves (John 13:35), then this would be a clear indication that these may, indeed, be representatives of the true, Christian congregation.

Agape, Alan.

[Rick]

Hello Alan and thanks for joining.

That`s a fine answer to my question and one that I must confess that I am not neccessarily opposed to. I believe in the unity of the Body of Christ through the Holy Spirit and Christian unity certainly can be considered a good thing. Paul wanted us to be unified and said so at least twice in his writings. In the book of John, Christ prayed that we would be one in Him. (John 17:20-23)


That`s not the response I am looking for though. After all, this is the debate forum and your clever attempt to avoid debate isn`t going to work here

I quote from your remarks below

"Therefore, in my view, the answer is quite simple. And, as for seeking out and attempting to determine which 'Church' is right, the answer is already stated - if they agree with one another as well as have love among themselves (John 13:35), then this would be a clear indication that these may, indeed, be representatives of the true, Christian congregation."


You state that in your point of view churches must agree with one another in order to be representative of the true Christian congregation or in other words the "true church"

But what happens when other churches promote doctrines and beliefs that are contrary to the gospel?

Are we to agree with them? I think not! Gospel truth is more important then church unity and we cannot compromise the gospel in order to create a unified church.

[JohnOneOne]

Originally Posted by Rick

Hello Alan and thanks for joining.

That`s a fine answer to my question and one that I must confess that I am not neccessarily opposed to. I believe in the unity of the Body of Christ through the Holy Spirit and Christian unity certainly can be considered a good thing. Paul wanted us to be unified and said so at least twice in his writings. In the book of John, Christ prayed that we would be one in Him. (John 17:20-23)


That`s not the response I am looking for though. After all, this is the debate forum and your clever attempt to avoid debate isn`t going to work here

I quote from your remarks below

"Therefore, in my view, the answer is quite simple. And, as for seeking out and attempting to determine which 'Church' is right, the answer is already stated - if they agree with one another as well as have love among themselves (John 13:35), then this would be a clear indication that these may, indeed, be representatives of the true, Christian congregation."

You state that in your point of view churches must agree with one another in order to be representative of the true Christian congregation or in other words the "true church"

But what happens when other churches promote doctrines and beliefs that are contrary to the gospel?

Are we to agree with them? I think not! Gospel truth is more important then church unity and we cannot compromise the gospel in order to create a unified church.

Obviously, one cannot agree with someone of whom they disagree; well, that is, unless they agree to disagree. But, unity of belief is, indeed, essential for true Christians to exist. Perhaps the following would better explain my position.

Although any people can have unity among theselves (centered around any common ideology, even false things), there cannot be unity within the 'body of Christ' without Gospel truth - for they do, indeed, go hand in hand. In other words, I am of the opinion that, with regard to those who make the claim of being true Christians, you cannot have one without the other. (1 Cor. 1:10).

Now, as respects those who may opt (choose) a different course (belief system), that is fine, for it should have no real lasting effect upon those who are, in reality, lovers of truth.

Agape, Alan.

[Rick]

Good answer Alan. And my experience with churches is that the Holy Spirit is always the same regardless of what church you find Him in. I concluded long ago that the Body of Christ is always unified all the time by the Holy Spirit.

Many believe that by bringing the church together into one man made organization that unity will be achieved. I oppose that idea.

[JohnOneOne]

Originally Posted by Rick

Good answer Alan. And my experience with churches is that the Holy Spirit is always the same regardless of what church you find Him in. I concluded long ago that the Body of Christ is always unified all the time by the Holy Spirit.

Many believe that by bringing the church together into one man made organization that unity will be achieved. I oppose that idea.

Well, as for the presence of "Holy Spirit" within the churches, I am of the opinion that, if one cannot see the fruitage (Gal. 5:22, 23), nor that the professed "Body of Christ" are unified, that is, in accordance to what is stated within 1 Cor. 1:10, then, what ever any would claim, the facts speak for themselves. (Matt. 7:16-18) The Scriptures make clear for a certaintly that works of the flesh are what produces 'divisions.' (Gal. 5:20) And, more often than not, as far as many Churches are concerned, such 'divisions' do, indeed, exist.

Now, with respect to any 'man made organization,' if its intent is for the doing of God's will, to be following the Biblical stated directive, to go out and 'preach and make disciples of people of all nations' (Matt. 28:19, 20), then I see nothing wrong with the effort to bring unity to the accomplishing of such a task, all to the glory and in the power of God.

Agape, Alan.

[Rick]

I see nothing in Galatians 5:20 that leads one to conclude church divisions to be a deed of the flesh.

Unity would be good if it is a unity that agrees with the gospel. But unity under heresy and another gospel must be opposed. That issue is addressed by Galatians 5:20. And unity of that sort will be opposed by God`s elect.

[JohnOneOne]

Originally Posted by Rick

I see nothing in Galatians 5:20 that leads one to conclude church divisions to be a deed of the flesh.

Unity would be good if it is a unity that agrees with the gospel. But unity under heresy and another gospel must be opposed. That issue is addressed by Galatians 5:20. And unity of that sort will be opposed by God`s elect.

At Galatians 5:20, with respect to those who are 'following the flesh,' that is, as being the source of 'divisions,' the Greek term used there is "dichostsis."

Depending on what Bible translation is being utilized, we see some using "dissensions" (NASB; Douay-Rheims; Young's), others use "divisions" (ASV; ERV; World English Bible).

Because this is, by conext, being put in contrast with the 'fruitage of God's spirit,' then both must be pertaining to the Church, the congregation of God - the danger being, since either one of these can be what guides/influences the Christian Congregation, the results of what one observes gives a direct indication of what is really its cause.

With respect to your next statement, I fully agree - unity towards a wrong purpose, in support of a "heresy and another gospel," although unifying, is still wrong.

Agape, Alan.

[Rick]

I think in principle we are close to being on the same page Alan. A dissension or a division can be about a lot of things that aren`t related to the gospel. Clearly such dissensions are wrong and contrary to following after the Holy Spirit.

In studying Pauls letters you certainly get the sense that he was dealing with a number of issues that weren`t gospel related.

But when it comes to the fundamental principles of the gospel you can`t compromise truth in order to have harmony. Yet in looking at the movement toward world religeon that is exactly what believers are being expected and told to do.

[joeycastaneda56]

Originally Posted by Rick

Why are there so many churches and which is right?

...........<<>> (False Doctrine False Churches) - There is a estimated 6,500 different Religions in the world today.The sad thing is only one can be right. There are only two Gods. The (God of Heaven) - (Exodus.20:1-17 - verse - 3 - "You shall have no other gods before Me". And the god of this world (Satan) - (Matt.4:1-11) - verse - 8 - Again the devil took Him / Jesus up on exceedingly high mountain, and showed Him all the kingdoms of the world and their glory. verse - 9 - And he said to Him, / Jesus "All these things I will give You if You will fall down and worship me". verse - 10 -Then Jesus said to him, Away with you, Satan ! For it is written, 'You shall worship the Lord your God, and Him only you shall serve.' Any Religions that does not follow the Gospel of Jesus Christ will not Make Heaven their home. As Jesus stated in the Word of God. No ones go to the Father except through Me / Jesus Christ. I will have 10 points that will cover false (Doctrine of Devils and Demons). I will add the 10 points as quick as I can. Here is my opening statement.

(The War on the Saints)
The greatest and most important work of Satan now among men is to counterfeit doctrine and experiences of God as revealed in Scripture in order to deceive saints. Men are commanded to prove and to test all doctrines and experiences in the supernatural realm to see if they are of God or of Satan (1 Cor.2:12-16; Phil.1:9-10; 1 Thess.5:21-22; 1 John.4:1-6). It is certain that every religion, doctrine, and experience among men cannot be from God; so we must judge them by the plain written Word of God. The greatest danger for spiritual believers is to accept anything and everything in the realm of the supernatural as being from God. Such believers have consecrated themselves to yield to the Holy Spirit and the leadings of God, and they think that they cannot be deceived and be led by evil spirits through counterfeit doctrine and leadings. But the fact that the believers is a child of God does not stop the devil from trying in every conceivable way to imitate God to the believer. In fact, believers are the ones he concentrates upon and wars against.
Paul said, " And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light. Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works: ( 2 Cor.11:14-15). this makes it clear that counterfeits of Satan will be substitutes of the truth and as near to the light and truth as possible in order to deceive seekers after truth. So it will pay everyone to be careful about what he believes and what supernatural power he yields to. There are definite ways outlined in Scripture by which one can detect what kind of spirit is seeking control of him. In brief I will mention a few general principles that one can use to detect good and evil spirits and their operations and doctrine..........Joey.