First resurrection

[rodger]

Matt 27;52;53

And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,
And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.

John 11;25;26
Jesus said to her, "I am the one who brings people back to life, and I am life itself. Those who believe in me will live even if they die. And everyone who lives and believes in Me will never die.

Thankyou God in Jesus name.




God bless

[Dave Sargeant]

Rodger, many preachers and Bible teachers seem to miss this aspect of truth. I have proclaimed it from the pulpit many times and it always provokes comment. As far as I can see these saints sat just inside their tombs for three days then went into Jerusalem. What a shock to those to whom they appeared. I wonder what happened to them after? Did they go up to heaven? It is appointed unto men to die once. Or, are they still with us. I don' think they are but we are told no more about them. Dave

[rodger]

Hi Dave


I believe they when to heaven and from that point onwards, Thats where the
first fruits come from, from the resurrection of Christ Jesus to His coming.




God bless

[Dave Sargeant]

Interesting Rodger, I always believed that the disciples, or even the believers at the return of Jesus were,are, the first fruits. Your reply gives me food for thought and a further examination of the word. Dave.

[Rick]

Originally Posted by rodger

Matt 27;52;53

And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,
And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.

John 11;25;26
Jesus said to her, "I am the one who brings people back to life, and I am life itself. Those who believe in me will live even if they die. And everyone who lives and believes in Me will never die.

Thankyou God in Jesus name.




God bless

Hello Rodger,

I believe that what you see in the verse above is evidence that when Jesus ascended into heaven He took the Old Covenant saints with Him.
After Jesus died salvation under the terms of the former covenants was no longer possible.

Here is a piece I wrote sometime back that presents further evidence.

The Dead In Christ


I will begin by sharing a few things about the book of Enoch. The book of Enoch is considered Apocrypha so we must put an asterisk next to Enoch and any ideas taken from the book must be considered theory rather then fact. Enoch is the only book of the Apocrypha that I have made a detailed study of and I will give you my reasons why.
The book of Enoch is one of the oldest books in the world with partial copies that date to the second century BC. Enoch is mentioned in the book of Jude as a prophet and the writer of Jude quotes prophecy he attributes to Enoch so the implication is that Enoch’s prophecy existed in written form. (Jude 1:14-15) I am not an expert on the book of Enoch but I haven’t found anything in the book that conflict with the scriptures.
The book of Enoch is an interesting read and stands out simply as a work of literature. The view that this literature could possibly have been written by Enoch makes the book a good source of theory. Enoch gives a vivid description of the pre-flood world and it is a world in which the flood becomes very understandable. Enoch describes a world in a fallen condition that left God with few alternatives but to start over. From Enoch we are able to get some theories regarding the pre-flood world, the fallen angels, and their impact on civilization, and about hell.
I mention Enoch at this time because I begin with a theory that originates from the book of Enoch. According to the book, Enoch was shown the interior of the earth and he was shown hell. He reports chambers within hell that separate the righteous and the unrighteous dead.
From this I make the theory that hell, prior to the ascension of Christ contained both the righteous and the unrighteous dead and that they were kept in separate chambers.
Now we will test this theory with the scriptures.

“There was a certain rich man, which was clothed in purple and fine linen, and fared sumptuously every day: And there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, which was laid at his gate, full of sores, And desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man's table: moreover the dogs came and licked his sores. And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried; And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom. And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame. But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented. And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence.” (Luke 16:19-26)

In this saying Jesus depicts the righteous and the unrighteous as dwelling in the same area and separated by a great gulf. Abraham, Lazarus and the rich man are able to see each other. This passage agrees with the theory I present. The place of the righteous dead is called Abraham’s bosom but it is not called heaven.

“But he answered and said unto them, An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given to it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas: For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.” (Matthew 12:39-40)

In this passage Jesus reveals where He went during the three days He was dead. He spent those three days in the heart of the earth. Now consider this:

“And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, Today shalt thou be with me in paradise.” (Luke 23:43)

Jesus told the thief on the cross that he would be going with Jesus that very day to paradise. This place called paradise was Jesus destination when He spent three days in the heart of the earth. It was the chamber of the righteous dead.

The Bible indicates in several places that hell is in the center of the earth where Jesus went for three days.

“For a fire is kindled in mine anger, and shall burn unto the lowest hell.” (Deuteronomy 32:22)

“Deeper than hell” (Job 11:8)

“For great is thy mercy toward me: and thou hast delivered my soul from the lowest hell.” (Psalms 86:13)

“But he knoweth not that the dead are there; and that her guests are in the depths of hell.” (Proverbs 9:18)


“Hell from beneath is moved for thee to meet thee at thy coming: it stirreth up the dead for thee.” (Isaiah 14:9)

“Though they dig into hell, thence shall mine hand take them.” (Amos 9:2)

“Then Jonah prayed unto the LORD his God out of the fish's belly, And said, I cried by reason of mine affliction unto the LORD, and he heard me; out of the belly of hell cried I, and thou heardest my voice.” (Jonah 2:1-2)

In many other places the Bible calls hell the pit. In the book of Revelation the Bible calls hell the bottomless pit. In the heart of the earth where hell is, it connects with the spirit world.
I find no place in the Old Testament that speaks of men going to heaven. That is a New Covenant doctrine. But why? It’s a very simple answer. Jesus brings salvation to all of God’s elect including the elect who lived and died before the time of Christ. They had a promise of salvation but their Redeemer had not yet come. They had not been bought with the blood of Jesus and they could not dwell in heaven. They had to wait in the chamber of the righteous dead, confined in hell until Jesus came to retrieve them.

“The way of life is above to the wise, that he may depart from hell beneath.” (Proverbs 15:24)

Why does the proverb speak of the wise departing from hell beneath? It’s because that’s where the righteous dead were.

Here’s the key verse:

“Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men. Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth?” (Ephesians 4:8-9)

Jesus descended into the lower parts of the earth to retrieve the elect of God who had died. They were the captivity that had been made captives because they had not yet been redeemed. And when Jesus ascended up on high He took the captivity with Him who are now the captives of Jesus Christ waiting in the heavenly paradise for their salvation and resurrection to come. Just as all those who die in Christ go to the heavenly paradise to await their salvation and resurrection.
(Side Note: the verse also says that He gave gifts unto men. These are the spiritual gifts that the Holy Spirit gives to the children of God.)
The Old Covenant did not save anyone. Neither did the Noah covenant or the arrangement God made with Adam and his pre-flood descendants. They were simply a method of expressing faith and obedience. Those who qualified for redemption had to wait for their Redeemer to come for them and He did. Amen.

[Chris]

Hello there,

Lazarus was brought to life again too, but not to life eternal, he would have died again, it is the same for those who were raised in the instance you have highlighted, they were raised to life yes, but not to eternal life at this time, they were also raised to the earth, but did not ascend into heaven, and would have died again.

Our Lord Jesus Christ was raised to life, on the earth, but then ascended into heaven.

Resurrection life for all men will begin at the resurrection and not before. Our life is hid with Christ in God, awaiting His manifestation in glory, when we too will be manifested with Him there.

In Christ
Chris

[Rick]

Originally Posted by Chris

Hello there,

Lazarus was brought to life again too, but not to life eternal, he would have died again, it is the same for those who were raised in the instance you have highlighted, they were raised to life yes, but not to eternal life at this time, they were also raised to the earth, but did not ascend into heaven, and would have died again.

Our Lord Jesus Christ was raised to life, on the earth, but then ascended into heaven.

Resurrection life for all men will begin at the resurrection and not before. Our life is hid with Christ in God, awaiting His manifestation in glory, when we too will be manifested with Him there.

In Christ
Chris

Lazarus returned to his body. Those who came out of their graves were pure spirit. They did not have the new body.

And when Jesus ascended they went with Him.

"Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men."

The spirits were the captivity led captive.

[Rick]

P.S. And don`t forget, Paul believed that when he died he was going to go be with Christ.

[Chris]

With respect Rick, I believe that you are assuming a great deal.

As for Paul, I do not believe that He did expect to 'be with the Lord', I now the verse in Phillipians that you are referring to. For if so, it would be in direct contradiction with what He says elsewhere. But that is a subject two large for the time that I have at present to spend on the forum, maybe another time Rick.

'Leading captivity captive' is one thing, taking the spirits of the dead with Him into heaven is another. I draw the line at putting words where the Holy Spirit is silent.

In Christ
Chris

[rodger]

Is Abraham Isaac and Jacob dead waiting for resurrection? or are they living with God now? Is God the God of the living or the dead? Whom believe in Him shall never see death. Is Moses and Elijah dead? The 144000 are they dead waiting resurrection?