Well Russell this is how I defined being saved.

Romans 5:9-11 (King James Version)

9Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.

10For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life. 11And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement.


The concept of being saved in the Biblical context is to be saved from recieving the wrath of God that hangs over mankind.

Rick I can see and understand and it's all Undeniable and all true and I whole hearted agree with you, but I see the other piece.
Once again there is a Spiritual and Physical piece in God's Salvation. Not only is this saving for the future but for NOW. Salvation is now and continues into eternity. Saved is used in a present and future tense, as "we are saved by His Grace and we will be saved in the day of judgment". Even the verses you quoted have a present and future tense. I'm looking to be saved now in this physical life and in the future Spiritual Life. Unending Abundance, Fullness and Richness of Life, spiritually, mentally, emotionally, and physically that never ends = Eternal Life. The word "sozo" (delivered and made whole) is used for the physical and spiritual context. But! But in the Gospels it is used for physical salvation because the other mystery part was hidden. When the lawyer asks Jesus what he had to do for enternal life (which is an incorrect rendering) Jesus tells him a story about a guy getting beatup and somone helping him. Jesus then adds "do the same and you will have life" ie. eternal life. It was a story about a total physical salvation on earth. Nobody was looking for pie in the sky as they do today.
In the Epistles it takes on a more spiritual flavor as the mystery of the mission of the sacrifice lamb is revealed.

(Col 1:13 [KJV])
WhoHATH delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated [us] into the kingdom of his dear Son:
(Luke 1:68-74 [KJV])
Blessed [be] the Lord God of Israel; for he hath visited and redeemed his people,
And HATH raised up an horn of salvation for us in the house of his servant David;
As he spake by the mouth of his holy prophets, which have been since the world began:
That we should be saved from our enemies, and from the hand of all that hate us;
To perform the mercy [promised] to our fathers, and to remember his holy covenant;
The oath which he sware to our father Abraham,
That he would grant unto us, that we being delivered out of the hand of our enemies might serve him without fear,
(Luke 18:40-43 [KJV])
And Jesus stood, and commanded him to be brought unto him: and when he was come near, he asked him,
Saying, What wilt thou that I shall do unto thee? And he said, Lord, that I may receive my sight.
And Jesus said unto him, Receive thy sight: thy faith HATH SAVED thee.
And immediately he received his sight, and followed him, glorifying God: and all the people, when they saw [it], gave praise unto God.

__________________
Russell
Acts 28:31 KJV) "Preaching the kingdom of God, and teaching those things which concern the Lord Jesus Christ," with all confidence, ....

Healing those hurt by the church

But what about this one?


36As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.

Russell,
Very interesting! I have always struggled with what seemed to be a contradiction in the word. It seems as though sometimes works are what matter and other times faith is what counts. It makes a lot of sense that Christ is dealing with both physical and spiritual. I will study this further and let you know what conclusions I come to but thank you for showing me a new side to the story.
I guess that was a great place to start and what I had never heard before was the concept of salvation and eternal life dealing with two different domains. I found it interesting that you referred to 'Life' as: {IE. Life that begins now and is Unending Abundance and fullness of Life physically, mentally, and Spiritually }),
Referring to Matthew 19:16-25: Christ told the young man that 'works' were how you gained salvation. This makes more sense with your theory. In addition, however, I would like to point out an observation I made reading this verse with that in mind. The young man told Christ that he had upheld all of those laws. In response, Christ gave him another challenge. I would dare to say that, in the physical realm, there is always something more you can do. In the spiritual realm all we can do is accept Christ but to live a full 'life' there is always a higher goal to be reached. Any thoughts?
Thanks

I just realized something. Not to make either of you feel awkward and not to be rude... But I just realized that I am holding a religious discussion with two men twice my age. I hope I have not offended, I merely mean to say that it is a little intimidating. How silly my basic thinking must seem to you both. Wow. Thank you for your time.

Just try not to cry too much when we spank you

It is quite a challenge to try to reconcile grace and works. I personally struggled, pondered and perplexed over the issues for many years until one day when I reached a sudden clarity about it all that I believe came to me by revelation of the Spirit.

Grace vs works by my observation is the largest single issue of contention among religeous people online. At least in the places I visit it is.

One of the things that is hard for us is the fact that most of what we have was written by Paul. His teachings reflect a Hebrew style that is different from the way things are taught in the Western World so at a surface there can seem to be contradiction.

The reality is that there is no contradiction but you have to get it before you see it all clearly.

The simplest way that I can explain it is this. Works cannot save anyone and salvation is by God`s grace. However the Spirit by which God`s salvation manifests itself into your life will always produce certain kinds of behavior and actions that scripture calls the fruit of the Spirit.

Good works do not produce salvation, they are not the salvation but they do demonstrate proof of the salvation.

The bottom line is that the saved will live life in a way that shows the Spirit of God working within them. And for this reason the Bible compels us to pursue good works and strive to demonstrate God`s salvation to other people with our lives.

Yes! Excellent! Search for yourself and hear from God.
I myself have struggled with the term "Saved and Eternal Life" in this passage and it never made sense. Why would Jesus tell a man he could have eternal life by following the 10 commandments? Deut.28:1-15 gives part of the answer, which had to be some of Jesus' teachings or else people would not be asking Him how to have fullness of life. As for "works" the scripture says God rewards us according to our works. Works is merely the outward evidence of loving God. Loving God is the first step in deliverance. Jesus taught people to love God with all their heart. So now we can see what he was saying to the young man but the young man was in bondage to his wealth and would not see the fullness of God's plan. How could the rich young man look to God for his fullness of life when he was looking to his riches for fullness of life.
"to live a full life there is always a higher goal to be reached" without a doubt. To constantly weed out sin in our life will bring more rewards from God "Deut.28:1-15". To love God with all your heart will cause you to live a pleasing life and experience the fullness (all aspects of salvation) unending abundance of life.

__________________
Russell
Acts 28:31 KJV) "Preaching the kingdom of God, and teaching those things which concern the Lord Jesus Christ," with all confidence, ....

Healing those hurt by the church

I'm not often known to cry but it's been a while since I've been spanked... ... Anyway,
I always understood that Faith is the evidence of things not seen but that our works cause that faith to be seen by others. All the verses about fruit clarify that as well. - That was a lame attempt to quote scripture right before bed time. - So, faith is the acceptance of God's gift of grace - Faith is a strong belief that triggers action - action is what affects your life on earth. So, does that not go along with what you were saying about salvation here on earth?
Also, our earthly works are not anything we do but what the Holy Spirit does through us since all good comes from God. This is how we become the light of the earth with God's love shining through our prism-like vessels. This is another reason for works as it draws people into the faith.
What I see in my generation is Christians that live by law and not by faith so God's love is not shining through as clearly but, instead, their words demand perfection. And, as I said before, you cannot inspire change if you cannot inspire hope.

What do you mean by works is merely the outward evidence of loving God.?

Works is not the outside but inside evidence of loving God,