Is the gospel of "I'm saved and your not", a exclusive country club idea? I'm special because I belong to the "I'm saved club" and you need to join or your going to hell. Is this the teaching which Jesus taught the people. Is this the Gospel which Jesus preached?


If you think this is going to be the same old rehash "SURPRISE" its not.

__________________
Russell
Acts 28:31 KJV) "Preaching the kingdom of God, and teaching those things which concern the Lord Jesus Christ," with all confidence, ....

Healing those hurt by the church

If my memory serves me correctly there is an I`m saved club called the elect. Of the course the problem for people is the lack of ability to determine who is elect and who isn`t. A lot of religeous people think they can say what God will do, who is saved who isn`t, who goes to hell, who don`t etc. etc.


What folly that is and such talk invites judgement and is very dangerous.

__________________

Rick


Christian Doctrine Discussion

Christian Doctrine Debate

Christian Political Discussion

Rick, I don't know that much about the elect thinggy, so I'm really ignorant about its real meaning other than what calvinist say. But I am sure of this that only God knows who they are. "Folly" is the right word for those who's soul focus is the "Elect Club" because they are focusing on a subject that is truly understood by God. The next problem is what good does it do to understand the elect doctrine? Does it really add depth to a persons life? Does it really make a difference in our relationship with God? Does it draw people into Salvation?
People who think they are in the "Elect Club" (And I STRESS "think") are the first to turn their nose up at sinners (Of whom they are CHIEF) and the last to reach out toward them. When Charles Finney spoke the real Gospel calvinist, were converted left and right because they heard for the first time that God loved them. They told Finney they thought they were not of the elect and could do nothing but accept their fate. A lot good that teaching done for mankind. What good does it do for anyone to know that some are held onto for hidden reason and the rest fall for hidden reason? So big deal! Now you know why you fell away after it is to late and even then it wouldn't matter because it was your fate.

I for one would rather focus on the totality of the Gospel than to take a guess at who is saved and who isn't.

Now some have been teaching the opposite that God is going to save everyone even satan. No love of God on one hand and to much love of God on the other.

Is there something in between these two teachings that we haven't considered? I think so!

__________________
Russell
Acts 28:31 KJV) "Preaching the kingdom of God, and teaching those things which concern the Lord Jesus Christ," with all confidence, ....

Healing those hurt by the church

Both of you have valid points..Now I am searching for something concrete.I am young in the LORD..yet a baby.and am only here to glean for truth.My personal thoughts that anyone who defines their salvation in an attitude of an exclusive country club. I am special status.To me that does not reflect JESUS who is the gospel by which we are saved.Jesus laid down his life and gave up his status, to reach to humanity.The I am special glorifies self and not christ!!The right heart attitude to me would be more like this. I was a sinner, BUT JESUS!!! etc..I am now saved and transformed and found life in him etc..that adds up to the I am saved club. I am not a turn or burn gospel bearer!! and do not have statistics as to how many surrender their lives to the LORD, from that approach , but it is not against scripture to explain to people that hell does exist
We know there is an elect of GOD...Certainly ..I would think there is need to be watchful within the church..as to who may be his elect..not for a need to find special status by or to sit as judge of who gets eternal death or who gets eternal life..but for wachfulness as to who is sent by the LORD and who is speaking the true word of the LORD,and if we do find one in error, he has not given us the responsibilty to judge them to hell..BUT the responsibility to guard ourselves and to restore people to the LORD..if we can.

>>>glean for truth<<<<
Always keep that in mind when hearing anyone speak. When they say "I- I have THE TRUTH", Big Red Flags should pop up. I can quote Jesus and God and point to their words as truth. Jesus said His "words were truth". Just because a person quotes the bible does not make it truth. The devil quoted the scripture and it was not truth. Truth only proceeds from the mouth of God. Prophets speak truth because they only quote from God. So unless a person is a true prophet of God I don't care how many times or how loud they say they are speaking the truth. Truth will come to me when God speaks to me concerning a subject. I can look to teachers and fellow Christians to give me their thoughts and ideas and then it is up to God to verify whether they spoke the truth. So I can speak to you all night long but until God verifies my words to you, I am not speaking truth. I will never say to you "I have the truth" but I will say to you "I have heard from God and so can you".

__________________
Russell
Acts 28:31 KJV) "Preaching the kingdom of God, and teaching those things which concern the Lord Jesus Christ," with all confidence, ....

Healing those hurt by the church

>>>There is a need to be watchful in the church<<<
Yes you are correct. There are many who are not of God in control of our churches. The churches have become a corrupt business. I don't see any way of reversing the tide. I am just focusing on my walk with God and trying to get others to do the same. I want people to learn how to hear from God and get direction. I want people to walk and live in the Kingdom of God. This is my mission, to point them away from the religious churchy nonsense.

__________________
Russell
Acts 28:31 KJV) "Preaching the kingdom of God, and teaching those things which concern the Lord Jesus Christ," with all confidence, ....

Healing those hurt by the church

Proverbs 12:17
He that speaketh truth sheweth forth righteousness: but a false witness deceit.


Proverbs 12:19
The lip of truth shall be established for ever: but a lying tongue is but for a moment.

Proverbs 23:23
Buy the truth, and sell it not; also wisdom, and instruction, and understanding.

Isaiah 5:9
In mine ears said the LORD of hosts, Of a truth many houses shall be desolate, even great and fair, without inhabitant.

Jeremiah 9:5
And they will deceive every one his neighbour, and will not speak the truth: they have taught their tongue to speak lies, and weary themselves to commit iniquity.

John 8:32
And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

John 16:13
Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

2 Corinthians 13:8
For we can do nothing against the truth, but for the truth.

2 Timothy 2:15
Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

James 1:18
Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures.

2 Peter 2:2
And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of.

1 John 2:27
But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.

__________________

Rick


Christian Doctrine Discussion

Christian Doctrine Debate

Christian Political Discussion

All those verses are correct. We must speak truth, be taught in truth, live truth, and study truth, but unless the Lord verifies it is truth (gives revelation) to the individual it is just talk. Rick how many people have we heard on the net say "They have the truth" and "Listen to them because they speak the word of God"? These people were deceivers and lairs. (got to go get back to you)
(I'm back)
What is it that testifies to the truth we know. What makes what I say truth and others a lie and how can it be proven. It can't be quoting scripture because they quote scripture too. I used to say "If I'm lying then I'd rather believe my lie than yours". If we are both telling the truth from scripture then how come we disagree? Jesus said God verified His words and bore witness to them.

How can we do the same and be in assurance of our message?

__________________
Russell
Acts 28:31 KJV) "Preaching the kingdom of God, and teaching those things which concern the Lord Jesus Christ," with all confidence, ....

Healing those hurt by the church

Alright lets look at what is truth.
Poor Pilot wondered the same thing “What is Truth?”. We always have some nut job proclaiming they have the truth. How many messiahs did Pilot have to deal with before he met Jesus? How many “I have the truth” nut jobs did Pilot have to crucify before he met the real thing?
How do we know someone is teaching the truth?????
Lets take something simple and tear it apart for truth. Ready! Are we sure? OK here it is.
What is the TRUTH?
(John 1:29 [KJV])
I see a Lamb of God who is taking away the “Sins of the World” with no exceptions (So Far!) and
a Light which lightens ALL Men who COME INTO THE WORLD with no exceptions (So Far!).
Upsetting isn't it! What is the TRUTH????? (AAHHHhhh! Yes! One more thing, don't assume you think you know what I believe)

__________________
Russell
Acts 28:31 KJV) "Preaching the kingdom of God, and teaching those things which concern the Lord Jesus Christ," with all confidence, ....

Healing those hurt by the church

It all boils down to the question of who`s truth you are speaking. Is it your truth,Another man`s truth,Or is it truth you have recieved through the Holy Spirit. The only real truth is the truth that we recieve through the Holy Spirit. I can speak truth or you can speak truth but if someone else recieves truth they recieve it through the discernment of the Holy Spirit. I cannot impart truth to anyone unless God chooses to impart truth through me. The Holy Spirit is the ones who guides into truth. I think the passage below deals with the issue very well.


9But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.
10But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.
11For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.
12Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.
13Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
14But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
15But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man. 16For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? but we have the mind of Christ.

__________________

Rick


Christian Doctrine Discussion

Christian Doctrine Debate

Christian Political Discussion