Quotes from our founding fathers

[ErnestoGuevara]

Our founding fathers were ahead of their time in philosophical and political thinking. I hold their truths to be self evident. The majority of the founding fathers were deists, as indicated when they wrote All men are endowed with inalienable rights by their creator, others were atheists. I have reason to believe that most of them had a very low opinion of Christianity, as I shall show, and ALL of them, atheist, deist, theist or otherwise, were secularists.

"The Christian God is a being of terrific character- cruel, vindictive, capricious and unjust"

-Thomas Jefferson

"To talk of immaterial existences is to talk of nothings. To say that the human soul, angels, god, are immaterial, is to say there are nothing, or that there is no soul, no angels, no god. I cannot reason otherwise...I am satisfied, sufficiently occupied with the things which are, without tormenting or troubling myself about those which may indeed be, but of which we have no evidence"

-Thomas Jefferson

Christianity is the most perverted system that ever shone upon man

-Thomas Jefferson

"During fifteen centuries has the legal establishment of Christianity been on trial. What has been it its fruits? More or less, in all places, pride and indolence's in the clergy, ignorance and servility in the laity in both, superstition, bigotry and persecution"

-James Madison

"Lighthouses are more useful than churches"

-Benjamin Franklin

"This would be the best of all possible worlds if there were no religion in it"

-John Adams

"As I understand the Christian religion, it was, and is, a revelation. But how it has happened that millions of fables, tales, legends have been blended with both Jewish and Christian revelation that have made them the most bloody religion that ever existed"

-John Adams

"I almost shudder at the thought of alluding to the most fatal example of the abuses of grief which the history of mankind has produced- the Cross. Consider what calamities that engine of grief has produced."

-John Adams

And everyone should know of the 1797 Treaty with Tripoli drafted by George Washington himself.

As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion, as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion or tranquility of Musselmen; and as the said States never have entered into any war or act of hostility against any Mehomitian nation, it is declared by the parties that no pretext arising from religious opinions shall ever produce an interruption of harmony between the two countries.

And of course:

Shake off all fears of servile prejudices, under which weak mines are servilely crouched. Fix reason firmly in her seat, and call on her tribunal for every fact, every opinion. Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason than that of blindfolded fear.

-Thomas Jefferson

"Physical reality” isn’t some arbitrary demarcation. It is defined in terms of what we can systematically investigate, directly or not, by means of our senses. It is preposterous to assert that the process of systematic scientific reasoning arbitrarily excludes “non-physical explanations” because the very notion of “non-physical explanation” is contradictory.

[ErnestoGuevara]

“Millions of innocent men, women, and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burned, tortured, fined, and imprisoned, yet we have not advanced one inch toward uniformity. What has been the effect of coercion? To make one half of the world fools and the other half hypocrites.” Thomas Jefferson, Notes on Virginia

“The day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus, by the Supreme Being as His father, in the womb of a virgin will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerva in the brain of Jupiter.” Thomas Jefferson, Letter to John Adams, April 11, 1823

“Religious controversies are always productive of more acrimony and irreconcilable hatreds than those which spring from any other cause. I had hoped that liberal and enlightened thought would have reconciled the Christians so that their [not our?] religious fights would not endanger the peace of Society.”
George Washington Letter to Sir Edward Newenham, June 22, 1792

“I have found Christian dogma unintelligible. Early in life, I absenteed myself from Christian assemblies.” Benjamin Franklin


“The way to see by faith is to shut the eye of reason.” Benjamin Franklin, 1758

"Whenever we read the obscene stories, the voluptuous debaucheries, the cruel and torturous executions, the unrelenting vindictiveness, with which more than half the Bible is filled, it would be more consistent that we called it the word of a demon, than the word of God. It is a history of wickedness, that has served to corrupt and brutalize mankind." - Thomas Paine (The Age of Reason, 1794-1795.)

I do not believe in the creed professed by the Jewish church, by the Roman church, by the Greek church, by the Turkish church, by the Protestant church, nor by any church that I know of... Each of those churches accuse the other of unbelief; and for my own part, I disbelieve them all."- Thomas Paine (The Age of Reason, 1794-1795.)

"Is uniformity attainable? Millions of innocent men, women, and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined, imprisoned; yet we have not advanced one inch towards uniformity. What has been the effect of coercion? To make one half the world fools and the other half hypocrites. To support roguery and error
all over the earth." - Thomas Jefferson

"During almost fifteen centuries has the legal establishment of Christianity been on trial. What have been its fruits? More or less in all places, pride and indolence in the Clergy, ignorance and servility in the laity; in both, superstition, bigotry and persecution." - James Madison

"The civil rights of none shall be abridged on account of religious belief or worship, nor shall any national religion be established, nor shall the full and equal rights of conscience be in any manner, or on any pretence, infringed.'' - James Madison (Original wording of the First Amendment; Annals of Congress 434 (June 8, 1789).)

“In no instance have . . . the churches been guardians of the liberties of the people.”
“Religious bondage shackles and debilitates the mind and unfits it for every noble enterprise.” James Madison, April 1, 1774

“My earlier views of the unsoundness of the Christian scheme of salvation and the human origin of the scriptures have become clearer and stronger with advancing years, and I see no reason for thinking I shall ever change them.” Lincoln in a letter to Judge J.S. Wakefield, after the death of Willie Lincoln

“He was an avowed and open infidel, and sometimes bordered on Atheism...He went further against Christian beliefs and doctrines and principles than any man I ever heard.” John T. Stuart, Lincoln's first law partner

George Washington revealed almost nothing to indicate his spiritual frame of mind, hardly a mark of a devout Christian. In his thousands of letters, the name of Jesus Christ never appears.

[JWayne]

All copy and paste articles must be linked to their source or will be deleted

[richardP]

If the opposite of pro is con, then what must be the opposite of progress?

If you can't convince them, confuse them. - Harry S. Truman

You can fool some of the people all the time, and those are the ones you want to concentrate on. - George Bush

Giving money and power to government is like giving whiskey and car keys to teenage boys. P.J. O'Rourke

The first Presidential debate was down in Florida.
Residents spent all day putting plywood on their televisions. - David Letterman.

There will never be peace until something can be found which will restrain the passions of men and nations. -Billy Graham

"The corporate grip on opinion in the United States is one of the wonders of the Western world. No First World country has ever managed to eliminate so entirely from its media all objectivity - much less dissent." Gore Vidal

"To the frivolous, Christianity is certainly not glad tidings, for it wishes first of all to make them serious."
- Soren Kierkegaard

"The very first essential for success, is a perpetually constant and regular employment of violence."
- Adolph Hitler

'There ought to be limits to freedom.'
--Presidential candidate George W. Bush in a press conference at the Texas State House, May 21, 1999

If Barbie is so popular, why do you have to buy her friends?

If all the cars on the Earth were lined up bumper to bumper, some idiot would try to pass them.

"...too many of our resources have been wasted on the military. The Pentagon is like a black hole; what goes in is forever lost to us, and no new wealth is created." - Gore Vidal

[Nonsequitur]

Gee, Guerro, if life is so hard for you, why wait for the natural end?
If you think that America is so bad....why are you here?
If you don't believe that Jesus Christ is our Lord and Saviour, again, why are you here?
Methinks you protest too much.
(Abort,Restart,Retry?)

[richardP]

Mr. Nonsequitur wrote; "If you think that America is so bad....why are you here?"

While I do not agree with Mr. Guevara's remarks about Christianity, he does have a few things to say about the present state of our government which are worth consideration.

Mr. Nonsequitur, when you suggest that disagreement with the policies of the Federal government ought to be reason for emmigration you are not understanding the issue. Neither do you understand the mechanisms for reform.

It is not unpatriotic to question the policies of the Federal government or the machinations of the Pentagon.

When a man voices displeasure with the policy of the government he usually does so out of a love of country as well as from a desire to educate others.

My mother was fond of saying, "My country, right or wrong."

MY COUNTRY!
Not the Pentagon's country.
Not the lobbyists' country.
Not even congress' country.
MY COUNTRY!

I thoroughly disagree with the present policies of the Federal government and the Pentagon, but it is still MY COUNTRY and not theirs.

I have no intention of leaving MY COUNTRY because the generals and fat cats want to rob us and lie to us and tell us that we need to die for their profit margin.

A lot of Americans feel that we have somehow lost our country and want it back. All of us need to realize that something is wrong and that we need to get Our Country back.

We can't do that when extremists oppose patriotic efforts to shed the light of truth upon the lies which eminate from Washinton.

Isn't it rather odd that folks like Mr. Guevara (and Gore Vidal and Bill Maher) are able to recognize and speak the truth about our government when many who claim to be Christian turn away from it. While I find their comments about religion and Christianity to be offensive and inaccurate, their observations about our present governmental policies are chillingly true.

Perhaps our founding Fathers embraced the political dialogue between deists and atheists for good reason.

[Nonsequitur]

Originally Posted by richardP

Mr. Nonsequitur wrote; "If you think that America is so bad....why are you here?"(I still back that up, if America is so bad, one is free to leave.)

While I do not agree with Mr. Guevara's remarks about Christianity, he does have a few things to say about the present state of our government which are worth consideration.

Mr. Nonsequitur,(Please, just Nonsequitur.) when you suggest that disagreement with the policies of the Federal government ought to be reason for emmigration you are not understanding the issue.(My issue was not with the policies of immigration, nor their policies.)Neither do you understand the mechanisms for reform.(You might want to back up and not try to tell me what I don't understand, just because you don't comprehend what you read.)

It is not unpatriotic to question the policies of the Federal government or the machinations of the Pentagon.

When a man voices displeasure with the policy of the government he usually does so out of a love of country as well as from a desire to educate others.

My mother was fond of saying, "My country, right or wrong."

MY COUNTRY!
Not the Pentagon's country.
Not the lobbyists' country.
Not even congress' country.
MY COUNTRY!

I thoroughly disagree with the present policies of the Federal government and the Pentagon, but it is still MY COUNTRY and not theirs.

I have no intention of leaving MY COUNTRY because the generals and fat cats want to rob us and lie to us and tell us that we need to die for their profit margin.(Tell us please, how the 'fat cats' are determining your life.)

A lot of Americans feel that we have somehow lost our country and want it back. All of us need to realize that something is wrong and that we need to get Our Country back.

We can't do that when extremists oppose patriotic efforts to shed the light of truth upon the lies which eminate from Washinton.(Gee...of course not..we can't allow opposing viewpoints in America....that would be.....un-American.)

Isn't it rather odd that folks like Mr. Guevara (and Gore Vidal and Bill Maher) are able to recognize and speak the truth about our government when many who claim to be Christian turn away from it. While I find their comments about religion and Christianity to be offensive and inaccurate, their observations about our present governmental policies are chillingly true.(Wow. Talk about a non-sequiter.) You find Gore Vidal's and Bill Mahar's comments to be OK when it comes to man's government: but you condemn them when their comments go against God's Word. Oh well, this is America. Think what you what to about them. I think they are both homosexual idiots who couldn't pour water out of their boots if the instructions were written on the soles. But you go ahead and take sides with them.)

Perhaps our founding Fathers embraced the political dialogue between deists and atheists for good reason.

Gee....you had me until that last statement.
"Perhaps our founding Fathers embraced the political dialogue between deists and atheists for good reason."
Yeah, right........as good Christians, we should all embrace a political dialoge between deists, athiests, islamists, voo-dooists, buddists, etc....

[richardP]

Originally Posted by Nonsequitur

Gee....you had me until that last statement.
"Perhaps our founding Fathers embraced the political dialogue between deists and atheists for good reason."
Yeah, right........as good Christians, we should all embrace a political dialoge between deists, athiests, islamists, voo-dooists, buddists, etc....

The last statement was supposed to be ridiculous. Perhaps I phrased it wrong. If you were to rewrite it, how would you word it? I'm serious.

BTW Richard Dawkins has made a general announcement that the current state of antagonism between atheists and Christians should become more agressive. I note that he is too cowardly to oppose the Muslim agenda.

My son has informed me that Mr. Dawkins has told his droids to reject any further invitations to debate Christian intellectuals. Dawkins believes that Christianity is so illogical that it is beneath them to discuss our differences (and thereby risk being proved wrong).

A Christian says "look at the bald eagle" and points to the sky with his finger. An atheist sees only the finger.

Let us continue to be good Christians and give them the finger (figuratively speaking of course).

[Nonsequitur]

Originally Posted by richardP

The last statement was supposed to be ridiculous. Perhaps I phrased it wrong. If you were to rewrite it, how would you word it? I'm serious. Yours or mine?

BTW Richard Dawkins has made a general announcement that the current state of antagonism between atheists and Christians should become more agressive. I note that he is too cowardly to oppose the Muslim agenda.

My son has informed me that Mr. Dawkins has told his droids to reject any further invitations to debate Christian intellectuals. Dawkins believes that Christianity is so illogical that it is beneath them to discuss our differences (and thereby risk being proved wrong). I really don't care donkey dookies what dawkins says, whoever she is.
A Christian says "look at the bald eagle" and points to the sky with his finger. An atheist sees only the finger.

Let us continue to be good Christians and give them the finger (figuratively speaking of course).

Oh, of course....Christians would never really do that. Just (Figuratively speaking) of course.

[richardP]

Richard Dawkins is a prominent British evolutionist. Discussions of scientific theory aside, he has also published a number of anti-Christian books and articles.

His book "The Blind Watchmaker: Why the Evidence of Evolution Reveals a Universe Without Design" is the most often quoted tome by those who oppose ANY spirituality, especially that which is espoused by Christians and Jews.